GameCube:GameCube Video Output: Difference between revisions

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(Comments about different color spaces on PAL and TSC)
(Adding more info about colorimetry of different analog and digital displays.)
 
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[[File:GCCompare-RGB.jpg|600px]]
[[File:GCCompare-RGB.jpg|600px]]


(A user : At least on my side there is some difference in color reproduction, noticeable as banding on Mario's hat. PAL is expected to have better colors and a wider range of black levels but the NTSC picture is still off in the tone. The skin tones are off, as is the green.
(At least on my side there is some difference in color reproduction, noticeable as banding on Mario's hat. PAL is expected to have better colors and a wider range of black levels but the NTSC picture is still off in the tone. The skin tones are quite off and pretty noticeable.


There maybe needs to be some consideration maybe to the color spaces, which are different and US CRTs had different handling of color correction regarding the phosphor layers. White point is the same and that does match.
There needs to be consideration that these consoles were pre-HD, Rec709 and mostly under SMPTE C or PAL colorimetry. From the Wikipedia NTSC page:<blockquote>
==== Color compatibility issues ====
In reference to the gamuts shown on the CIE chromaticity diagram (above), the variations between the different colorimetries can result in significant visual differences. To adjust for proper viewing requires [[Color management#Gamut%20mapping|gamut mapping]] via [[Lookup table#Lookup%20tables%20in%20image%20processing|LUTs]] or additional [[color grading]]. SMPTE Recommended Practice RP 167-1995 refers to such an automatic correction as an "NTSC corrective display matrix." For instance, material prepared for 1953 NTSC may look desaturated when displayed on SMPTE C or ATSC/[[BT.709]] displays, and may also exhibit noticeable hue shifts. '''''On the other hand, SMPTE C materials may appear slightly more saturated on BT.709/sRGB displays, or significantly more saturated on P3 displays''''', if the appropriate gamut mapping is not performed.<ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC#Color_compatibility_issues</ref></blockquote>Compared with HDTV Rec709 and sRGB, PAL has some variation in green but red and blue match the primaries. Hence why I think NTSC RGB looks worse here and the PAL green looks a bit too saturated.  


The main consideration is that compared to HDTV Rec709 and sRGB, PAL has some variation in green but red and blue match the primaries. Hence why I think NTSC RGB looks worse here.)
For instance, on PAL consoles + PAL region TVs one should use PAL60, when the option is available. Otherwise going for NTSC will have more color issues and 576i will have scaling and downscaling issues that plague compatibility with modern displays. This will only correct primaries, not saturation though.
 
Ideally, conversion and scaling boxes need to do color correction and I think the OSSC has some options for doing this, though color correction does not seem to be something the retro community is very aware of.  


== GameCube vs Wii (Video Quality) ==
== GameCube vs Wii (Video Quality) ==
[[GameCube:GameCube vs Wii|See the dedicated GameCube vs Wii Video Output page.]]
[[GameCube:GameCube vs Wii|See the dedicated GameCube vs Wii Video Output page.]]

Latest revision as of 13:28, 13 November 2024

Getting the best quality output from a GameCube can be complicated, depending on your display.  This page touches upon all of those options, but most utilize the GameCube's digital-out port. 

Toward the end of the GameCube's life, Nintendo stopped producing consoles with the digital-out port, presumably to save money, so if you plan on using a "GCVideo" solution, make sure your console has this:

GameCubePage04.jpg

Exclamation-triangle-fill.svgIf you use an NTSC SNES RGB cable that uses CSYNC on a PAL GC, 12v will be sent down the sync line! This will most likely damage video equipment it's plugged into.


HDMI Displays

If you're looking to play GameCube games on your HDTV, you can buy a solution based on an open-source homebrew project called "GCVideo".  Some of these can be installed internally, but there are a few good plug-and-play options avaialble that support all resolutions.  Also, GCVideo 480i output has an option to "bob deinterlace" to 480p.  The result of that type of deinterlacing is a tiny bit flickery, but ads zero lag.  This is extremely important, as the Time Sleuth has proved that most TV's are significantly laggier when used with 480i signals, even in game mode!!

Where to buy

Note: Buying a Prism or Carby and a cheap HDMI to Component converter will get you the same quality output as the much more expensive MK-II.  You can even use dual output if you add an HDMI splitter.  The MK-II is certainly easier overall though.  Links to cheap DAC's:  RetroRGB Amazon Lists

 

480p-Compatible Analog Displays or Processors

If you're using a CRT or processor that supports 480p via component video or RGB, you have a few options.  The solution from Eon linked above can output either component video or RGB SCART via it's Wii port, meaning you'd just need to pick up a set of Wii cables.  Insurrection also makes a component cable that performs well.  You can also use the official component cables from Nintendo which are extremely expensive.

Where to buy

  • Official Nintendo Component Cables - $175+:  Ebay
  • Wii Component Cables (for use with the MK-II) - $30~:  Amazon
  • Eon MK-II RGB SCART Cable - $38~:  Retro-Access
  • Standard Wii RGB SCART Cable - $32~:  RetroGamingCables.co.uk

 

240p and 480i Only or No Digital out

Here's where things get a bit complicated, as not all region GameCube's have the same output options. If you're in a PAL region, your GC will output composite video and RGB (composite video sync), whereas NTSC GC's output composite and S-Video.

PAL GameCube RGB SCART Cables

S-Video Recommendations for NTSC Consoles:

RetroGamingCables.co.uk  

RAD2x HDMI Cable

The RAD2x cables plug into any SNES-style multi-out and output 480p HDMI.  The GCVideo solutions are better, as they support all the resolutions the GameCube has to offer and are a true digital-to-digital solution.  There are a few scenarios in which you might want to use them with your GameCube:  RetroGamingCables.co.uk

When to use:

  • If your GameCube doesn't have a digital output port, the RAD2x is pretty much your only solution.  It'll be fine with PAL GC's, but NTSC GC's will default to composite-to-HDMI conversion.
  • If you have a PAL GameCube, the RAD2x cables will convert it's RGB signal to HDMI.  If the library of games you play are 480i (or the Game Boy Interface software), the RAD2x might be an excellent solution.  In fact, the RAD2x's smoothing feature seems to help the look of 480i games, so this might be a bonus for some people.
  • You're buying the RAD2x to use with SNES or N64.  If that's the case and you don't already own a GCVideo solution, just try it on your GameCube and see what you think.  Even if you have an NTSC GC that will only be a composite to HDMI conversion, it might hold you off until you get a GCVideo solution.

 

Native RGB-out vs GCVideo / Official Component RGB-out

I was curious if there would be a difference between analog solutions that use the digital-out port (GCVIdeo or official component) and RGB out from a PAL GameCube.  I think the digital-out solutions produced a slightly sharper picture than the analog PAL RGB output.

I need to test more consoles to be sure and also use the highest quality shielded cables in all scenarios.  If the results are consistent, it's not a big difference, but just something to note.  Here's a quick 480i comparison taken on an RGB monitor.:

GCCompare-RGB.jpg

(At least on my side there is some difference in color reproduction, noticeable as banding on Mario's hat. PAL is expected to have better colors and a wider range of black levels but the NTSC picture is still off in the tone. The skin tones are quite off and pretty noticeable.

There needs to be consideration that these consoles were pre-HD, Rec709 and mostly under SMPTE C or PAL colorimetry. From the Wikipedia NTSC page:

Color compatibility issues

In reference to the gamuts shown on the CIE chromaticity diagram (above), the variations between the different colorimetries can result in significant visual differences. To adjust for proper viewing requires gamut mapping via LUTs or additional color grading. SMPTE Recommended Practice RP 167-1995 refers to such an automatic correction as an "NTSC corrective display matrix." For instance, material prepared for 1953 NTSC may look desaturated when displayed on SMPTE C or ATSC/BT.709 displays, and may also exhibit noticeable hue shifts. On the other hand, SMPTE C materials may appear slightly more saturated on BT.709/sRGB displays, or significantly more saturated on P3 displays, if the appropriate gamut mapping is not performed.[1]

Compared with HDTV Rec709 and sRGB, PAL has some variation in green but red and blue match the primaries. Hence why I think NTSC RGB looks worse here and the PAL green looks a bit too saturated.

For instance, on PAL consoles + PAL region TVs one should use PAL60, when the option is available. Otherwise going for NTSC will have more color issues and 576i will have scaling and downscaling issues that plague compatibility with modern displays. This will only correct primaries, not saturation though.

Ideally, conversion and scaling boxes need to do color correction and I think the OSSC has some options for doing this, though color correction does not seem to be something the retro community is very aware of.

GameCube vs Wii (Video Quality)

See the dedicated GameCube vs Wii Video Output page.