Dreamcast:Video Output Notes: Difference between revisions

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m (Fixed the link. Thread doesn't actually mention any fixes. Edited section header since it's about 240p, sorted the list, and removed underscore from Extron.)
 
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[[Category:RetroRGB Migration WIP]] Brickard
[[Category:Dreamcast]]
The Dreamcast natively supports 240p, 480i, and 480p resolutions.<ref>(5/12/2022) Sega Dreamcast. https://www.retrorgb.com/dreamcast.html</ref> All Dreamcast games support 480i, many support 480p, and a few support 240p. The Dreamcast is capable of outputting Composite, S-Video, VGA, RGB, and Component video.


== Analog Options (can be combined with a converter to get HDMI) ==
== VGA Notes ==


**Retro Access** has both SCART and BNC solutions that work in all resolutions and on all multi-format monitors.
Not all Dreamcast games are compatible with VGA, but a very large amount are. See the [[Dreamcast:List of VGA Games and Patches]] page for more information.


[https://retro-access.com/products/dreamcast-15khz-31khz-480i-480p-scart-cable?variant=17095604207667?aff=3 Retro Access Dreamcast SCART Cable]
The VGA output of the Dreamcast is 480p, but it is not the "typical" 480p DTV resolution (720 x 480) of televisions. The VGA output of the Dreamcast is 480p VESA resolution (640 x 480) within a 480p DTV signal.<ref>The 480p VESA is a standard resolution of PC monitors native to the era the Dreamcast was manufactured.</ref>


[https://retro-access.com/products/dreamcast-15khz-31khz-480i-480p-bnc-cable?variant=17095693828147?aff=3 Retro Access Dreamcast BNC Cable]
This means that the correct sample rate of the Dreamcast 480p signal is 858 pixels per line, the same sample rate of any 480p DTV signal.<ref>http://pms.hazard-city.de/ossc_sampling.jpg</ref> If the signal is interpreted as VESA only 800 pixels per line will be sampled, and at this sample rate 43 pixels columns will be lost within the active picture area. Also, if sampled at 800 pixels per line neighboring columns get blurry since the 43 columns are evenly distributed across the screen.


[https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/SEGA-DREAMCAST-RGB-SCART-CABLE-WITH-480P-MODE?tracking=5543fb4c077bb **Retro Gaming Cables SCART Cable**] (compatible with all scalers and monitors _except_ D and A-series BVM's)
== RGB Incompatibilities ==


**HDRetrovision** announced a component video solution, which supports all modes and outputs the correct sample rate to HDTV's:  [https://www.hdretrovision.com https://www.hdretrovision.com]
A few game discs will output composite and S-Video, but not RGB. Some games can be fixed with an ISO patch, however the very few games which are affected won't run in RGB from their original discs.  


**Boxes made by Beharbros:** [http://www.beharbros.com/ http://www.beharbros.com/] My current favorite solution from the Behar Bros is the Kuro Plus:  [https://www.beharbros.com/kuroplus https://www.beharbros.com/kuroplus] In my opinion, the Kuro Plus is the perfect solution for people who have two monitors:  An RGB monitor and a VGA monitor. It's very similar to the Toro, but without a scanline generator.  For more info, check out the toro's review:  [http://www.retrorgb.com/toro.html http://www.retrorgb.com/toro.html]
Here's some games that are affected:
* Giga Wing
* Pop 'n' Music (all 4)
* Skies of Arcadia/Eternal Arcadia
* Street Fighter Alpha/Zero 3
* Super Street Fighter 2 X
* Touken Retsuden 4
* Vampire Chronicle for Matching Service
* Vigilante 8 2nd Offense
[https://bordersdown.net/forum/gaming/get-answers-games-and-tech/4715-what-ntsc-dreamcast-games-are-non-rgb-compatible See this thread for more information].


**VGA / SCART Cable By The Foo:**  [https://ebay.to/2OVIFL3 https://ebay.to/2OVIFL3] - These seem to be good quality and the sync combiner works well, however the SCART adapter is often out-of-stock.
== Progressive Scan 240p compatible games ==


== HDMI Plug-and-Play Options ==
To access the 240p mode in Dreamcast games, a few games (like ''Bangai-O'') ask if you'd like to start the game in a "progressive" mode and some Capcom Dreamcast games (Third Strike) can be forced into a 240p mode by holding Start+L (or Start+Z on the Arcade Stick) when you turn the system on before the Capcom logo appears. These appear to be the only Dreamcast games that support native 240p:


==== Switchable Analog Cable with the OSSC ====
* Bangai-O
* Black Matrix A/D
* Gunbird 2
* Gunlord
* Jo Jo's Bizarre Adventure
* Last Blade 2: Final Edition
* Last Hope
* Marvel vs Capcom: Clash of Super Heroes
* Neo XYX
* Princess Maker Collection
* Street Fighter Alpha 3
* Street Fighter Zero 3
* Street Fighter Zero 3 for Matching Service
* Street Fighter 3: Double Impact
* Street Fighter 3: Third Strike
* The King of Fighters Dream Match 1999
* The King of Fighters 99 Evolution
* Twinkle Star Sprites


Using a switchable analog cable and [http://retrorgb.com/ossc.html the OSSC]
The Dreamcast is also a good platform to use with a downscaler, such as an [[AV:Extron_Emotia|Extron Emotia]], to force 480p games to 240p.
 
== 480p Aspect Ratio / Sampling Line Issues ==
 
Another problem is that while the DC's signal technically is a 720x480p DTV signal, only the inner 640x480p area is actually used. Any A/D conversion will sample the pillarboxes to the left and right as part of the active image, so you always end up with those aspect ratio problems. The aspect ratio problem is even bigger with DTV sampling (1.18:1 without correction while VESA sampling gives you 1.25:1).  You can try using a VGA to component converter to solve the sampling problem, as all component to HDMI converters use DTV sampling rates instead.  I guess you could then even go from component video to HDMI and while this retain's the Dreamcast's picture quality, you'll still end up with the wrong aspect ratio.
 
You can use a OSSC to apply a DTV sampling AND reduce the active image area to 640 pixels, basically creating a VESA signal from the DTV signal. This solves both problem, but can bring compatibility issues, as not all TVs can accept a 858 px wide signal with just a 640 px wide active area.  The advantage on the other hand by using a correctly sampled DTV signal without AR correction, is that you get a 1:2 pixel mapping on the horizontal on a Full HD screen. The DC will fill a 1280x1080 area in the middle of the screen, giving you a quite narrow AR, but certainly the best possible picture quality you can get from a DC.  By altering the active image area to 640px instead, the signal gets scaled to 1440x1080 instead, so you no longer get an integer scale on the horizontal. Of course you can get proper 4:3 now, but at the expense of some PQ. Some TVs can show 1280x960 from a 640x480p signal, which combines the best PQ with the correct AR, but of course you have to deal with the underscan.
 
A huge thank you to Fudoh for helping with this, as I still find it massively confusing.
 
== Progressive Scan (240p & 480p) compatible games ==
 
Not all Dreamcast games are compatible with VGA, but a very large amount are. I found a site that shows which games are compatible and even shows you how to force a VGA mode in most others!:
 
[http://www.epforums.org/showthread.php?56169-Dreamcast-VGA-Compatability-list-amp-Guide http://www.epforums.org/showthread.php?56169-Dreamcast-VGA-Compatability-list-amp-Guide]
 
To access the 240p mode in Dreamcast games, a few games ask if you'd like to start the game in a "progressive" mode (Bangai-O) and some Capcom Dreamcast games (Third Strike) can be forced into a 240p mode by holding Start+L (or Start+Z on the Arcade Stick) when you turn the system on, before the Capcom logo appears. As far as I know, these are the only Dreamcast games that support native 240p:
 
<table border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3" align="center"><tbody><tr><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Bangai-O</p></td><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Last Hope</p></td><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Street Fighter Alpha 3</p></td></tr><tr><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Black Matrix A/D</p></td><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Marvel vs Capcom: Clash of Super Heroes</p></td><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Street Fighter Zero 3</p></td></tr><tr><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Gunbird 2</p></td><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Neo XYX</p></td><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Street Fighter Zero 3 for Matching Service</p></td></tr><tr><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Gunlord</p></td><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Princess Maker Collection</p></td><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">The King of Fighters Dream Match 1999</p></td></tr><tr><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Jo Jo's Bizarre Adventure</p></td><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Street Fighter 3: Third Strike</p></td><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">The King of Fighters 99 Evolution</p></td></tr><tr><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Last Blade 2: Final Edition</p></td><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Street Fighter 3: Double Impact</p></td><td align="left" valign="top"><p align="center">Twinkle Star Sprites</p></td></tr></tbody></table>
 


== Forcing Widescreen mode / Aspect Ratio ==
== Forcing Widescreen mode / Aspect Ratio ==


Some Dreamcast games have been hacked to run in widescreen mode. If you play these games on an HDTV, this is definitely worth checking out[https://segaretro.org/List_of_Dreamcast_widescreen_codes https://segaretro.org/List\_of\_Dreamcast\_widescreen\_codes]
Some Dreamcast games have been hacked to run in widescreen mode. If you play these games on an HDTV, this is definitely worth checking out [https://segaretro.org/List_of_Dreamcast_widescreen_codes this list of widescreen codes].


Also, the aspect ratio of Dreamcast is a bit weird.  
Also, the aspect ratio of Dreamcast is a bit weird. Check out [http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1201520#p1201520 Fudoh's great post about it] and how it can be fixed with the OSSC.


Check out Fudoh's great post about it and how it can be fixed with the OSSC:  [http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1201520#p1201520 http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1201520#p1201520]
== 480p Aspect Ratio / Sampling Line Issues ==
 
 
== Some games aren't RGB-compatible ==
 
A few game discs will output composite and S-Video, but not RGB.  Some games can be fixed with an ISO patch, however the very few games which are effected won't run in RGB from their original discs. 
Here's some games that are effected, as well as a forum link to fixes:
 
Effected Games (most):  Giga Wing, Skies of Arcadia/Eternal Arcadia, Street Fighter Alpha/Zero 3, Super Street Fighter 2 X, Touken Retsuden 4 , Vampire Chronicle for Matching Service, Pop 'n' Musci (all 4).
 
Links:  [http://www.bordersdown.net/threads/11538-What-NTSC-Dreamcast-games-are-non-RGB-compatible http://www.bordersdown.net/threads/11538-What-NTSC-Dreamcast-games-are-non-RGB-compatible]
 
== Converting 480p to 240p for a "retro" look ==
 
If you run the 480p VGA signal through an [emotia.html Extron Emotia], you can force a 240p mode. I've tested this method and in my opinion (when using a display that doesn't support 480p), a "forced 240p mode" looks better than 480i. Check out [240p.html my 240p page] for more information.
 
== Playing CDr's ==
 
If the original game is under 800MB and you use good quality (Tayo Uden) discs, you can safely play backups on VA0, VA1 and some VA2 Dreamcast consoles using a software patch.  Using cheap media is very bad for your GDROM drive and will absolutely wear your drive much faster than with regular games!  Also, games over 800MB (GDROMs can be over 1GB) will either have to be compressed or split to multiple discs.  Overall, improper use of CDr's are not recommended and using an ODE is overall a better choice.
 
== Optical Drive Emulators ==
 
You can replace the Dreamcast's GDROM drive with an ODE that allows you to launch games from hard drives or flash media.
 
== Hardware Tips and Tricks ==
 
Here's a video that shows all my favorite tricks for getting the best out of your Dreamcast:
 
https://youtu.be/eOP3ZDUX7Y8
 
== Summary ==


\- If you'd like the best analog output from your Dreamcast, purchase a video output solution that supports both video modes. You'll be able to play your favorite games in a way that looks best on every display you use it on.
Another problem is that while the DC's signal technically is a 720x480p DTV signal, only the inner 640x480p area is actually used. Any A/D conversion will sample the pillarboxes to the left and right as part of the active image, so you always end up with those aspect ratio problems. The aspect ratio problem is even bigger with DTV sampling (1.18:1 without correction while VESA sampling gives you 1.25:1). You can try using a VGA to component converter to solve the sampling problem, as all component to HDMI converters use DTV sampling rates instead. If you convert from component video to HDMI, it will retain the Dreamcast's picture quality, you'll still end up with the wrong aspect ratio.


\- If you'd like digital audio, you can try this TOSLINK mod:  [https://assemblergames.com/threads/saturn-dreamcast-toslink.57670/ https://assemblergames.com/threads/saturn-dreamcast-toslink.57670/]
You can use a OSSC to apply a DTV sampling AND reduce the active image area to 640 pixels, basically creating a VESA signal from the DTV signal. This solves both problem, but can bring compatibility issues, as not all TVs can accept a 858px wide signal with just a 640 px wide active area. The advantage on the other hand by using a correctly sampled DTV signal without AR correction, is that you get a 1:2 pixel mapping on the horizontal on a Full HD screen. The DC will fill a 1280x1080 area in the middle of the screen, giving you a quite narrow AR, but certainly the best possible picture quality you can get from a DC. By altering the active image area to 640px instead, the signal gets scaled to 1440x1080 instead, so you no longer get an integer scale on the horizontal. Of course you can get proper 4:3 now, but at the expense of some PQ. Some TVs can show 1280x960 from a 640x480p signal, which combines the best PQ with the correct AR, but of course you have to deal with the underscan.


If you'd like info on mods for other systems, head to the [/systems.html Getting RGB From Each System page] or check out [index.html the main page] for more retro-awesomeness.
== References ==

Latest revision as of 19:52, 29 March 2024

The Dreamcast natively supports 240p, 480i, and 480p resolutions.[1] All Dreamcast games support 480i, many support 480p, and a few support 240p. The Dreamcast is capable of outputting Composite, S-Video, VGA, RGB, and Component video.

VGA Notes

Not all Dreamcast games are compatible with VGA, but a very large amount are. See the Dreamcast:List of VGA Games and Patches page for more information.

The VGA output of the Dreamcast is 480p, but it is not the "typical" 480p DTV resolution (720 x 480) of televisions. The VGA output of the Dreamcast is 480p VESA resolution (640 x 480) within a 480p DTV signal.[2]

This means that the correct sample rate of the Dreamcast 480p signal is 858 pixels per line, the same sample rate of any 480p DTV signal.[3] If the signal is interpreted as VESA only 800 pixels per line will be sampled, and at this sample rate 43 pixels columns will be lost within the active picture area. Also, if sampled at 800 pixels per line neighboring columns get blurry since the 43 columns are evenly distributed across the screen.

RGB Incompatibilities

A few game discs will output composite and S-Video, but not RGB. Some games can be fixed with an ISO patch, however the very few games which are affected won't run in RGB from their original discs.

Here's some games that are affected:

  • Giga Wing
  • Pop 'n' Music (all 4)
  • Skies of Arcadia/Eternal Arcadia
  • Street Fighter Alpha/Zero 3
  • Super Street Fighter 2 X
  • Touken Retsuden 4
  • Vampire Chronicle for Matching Service
  • Vigilante 8 2nd Offense

See this thread for more information.

Progressive Scan 240p compatible games

To access the 240p mode in Dreamcast games, a few games (like Bangai-O) ask if you'd like to start the game in a "progressive" mode and some Capcom Dreamcast games (Third Strike) can be forced into a 240p mode by holding Start+L (or Start+Z on the Arcade Stick) when you turn the system on before the Capcom logo appears. These appear to be the only Dreamcast games that support native 240p:

  • Bangai-O
  • Black Matrix A/D
  • Gunbird 2
  • Gunlord
  • Jo Jo's Bizarre Adventure
  • Last Blade 2: Final Edition
  • Last Hope
  • Marvel vs Capcom: Clash of Super Heroes
  • Neo XYX
  • Princess Maker Collection
  • Street Fighter Alpha 3
  • Street Fighter Zero 3
  • Street Fighter Zero 3 for Matching Service
  • Street Fighter 3: Double Impact
  • Street Fighter 3: Third Strike
  • The King of Fighters Dream Match 1999
  • The King of Fighters 99 Evolution
  • Twinkle Star Sprites

The Dreamcast is also a good platform to use with a downscaler, such as an Extron Emotia, to force 480p games to 240p.

Forcing Widescreen mode / Aspect Ratio

Some Dreamcast games have been hacked to run in widescreen mode. If you play these games on an HDTV, this is definitely worth checking out this list of widescreen codes.

Also, the aspect ratio of Dreamcast is a bit weird. Check out Fudoh's great post about it and how it can be fixed with the OSSC.

480p Aspect Ratio / Sampling Line Issues

Another problem is that while the DC's signal technically is a 720x480p DTV signal, only the inner 640x480p area is actually used. Any A/D conversion will sample the pillarboxes to the left and right as part of the active image, so you always end up with those aspect ratio problems. The aspect ratio problem is even bigger with DTV sampling (1.18:1 without correction while VESA sampling gives you 1.25:1). You can try using a VGA to component converter to solve the sampling problem, as all component to HDMI converters use DTV sampling rates instead. If you convert from component video to HDMI, it will retain the Dreamcast's picture quality, you'll still end up with the wrong aspect ratio.

You can use a OSSC to apply a DTV sampling AND reduce the active image area to 640 pixels, basically creating a VESA signal from the DTV signal. This solves both problem, but can bring compatibility issues, as not all TVs can accept a 858px wide signal with just a 640 px wide active area. The advantage on the other hand by using a correctly sampled DTV signal without AR correction, is that you get a 1:2 pixel mapping on the horizontal on a Full HD screen. The DC will fill a 1280x1080 area in the middle of the screen, giving you a quite narrow AR, but certainly the best possible picture quality you can get from a DC. By altering the active image area to 640px instead, the signal gets scaled to 1440x1080 instead, so you no longer get an integer scale on the horizontal. Of course you can get proper 4:3 now, but at the expense of some PQ. Some TVs can show 1280x960 from a 640x480p signal, which combines the best PQ with the correct AR, but of course you have to deal with the underscan.

References

  1. (5/12/2022) Sega Dreamcast. https://www.retrorgb.com/dreamcast.html
  2. The 480p VESA is a standard resolution of PC monitors native to the era the Dreamcast was manufactured.
  3. http://pms.hazard-city.de/ossc_sampling.jpg